Monkey Dynasty

Announcements => Polls => Topic started by: Tcholok on February 26, 2019, 02:39:19 am

Title: PvP Event System
Post by: Tcholok on February 26, 2019, 02:39:19 am
Now that our new automated PvP event system has been running for a few days, let us know your thoughts! We've got plenty of planned improvements and your suggestions will help us further guide our development. Please comment with any improvements you have in mind.

Some of the improvements we have planned already are:
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: Gнαи∂συя on March 01, 2019, 11:01:35 am
it's all good and so, but i think the pm and class spam is a bit annoying. specially to those who doesn't want to pvp or participate in the event itself.

i guess, if there's a list someone can add himself to it, to be spammed as a reminder instead of spamming everyone will be a better option. or just the world chat as an announcement just as the welcome back state will be a better option as well.
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: Ken on March 01, 2019, 01:12:08 pm
Or could just change the location where the text appears, if thats possible.  Agreed the spam is a bit much atm xD
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: Tcholok on March 02, 2019, 12:40:06 am
Thanks for the feedback guys.

Which specific messages do you think should be reduced? The PM messages are only sent to those who are actually participating in the event. The broadcasts can be reduced but there's no way to filter those by player so those are all or nothing. I think we can remove the class messages that accompany the broadcasts.

Let me know any more specific suggestions around reducing unnecessary messages.
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: Gнαи∂συя on March 04, 2019, 01:22:09 pm
I believe the class spam is the main problem since the pm is only for those who participate. Removing it will be a good thing actually.
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: Ken on March 04, 2019, 07:31:55 pm
Maybe you could use the text above chat boxes category server wide message instead of the class message, or an automated regular world chat bot with a special icon or something next to the bot name, or highlighted bot name or something.
Dunno how many of these are actually possible with the tools you guys have, just spitballing.
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: sloth1o1 on April 08, 2019, 02:25:05 pm
The idea of banana seeds resetting at each event is very annoying, as this limits the PVP to +14 only, otherwise you will never make enough seeds in one event to buy anything usefull. Would be great if the seeds can stack on your account. Any thoughts on generating an +12 PVP event? even if its not hosted all that often.
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: Perryl on May 10, 2019, 04:12:39 pm
The idea of banana seeds resetting at each event is very annoying, as this limits the PVP to +14 only, otherwise you will never make enough seeds in one event to buy anything usefull. Would be great if the seeds can stack on your account. Any thoughts on generating an +12 PVP event? even if its not hosted all that often.

Seeds not stacking is intentional, the items being the same every event, not so much. Yes, I do think there's a good reason to try and create limited PvP events too. The game has evolved far beyond a simple +12 or +14 being the deciding factor in PvP.  It's rather common for otherwise maxed out players to keep +12 gears just so they can participate in +12 PvP.  I don't see how this limits the PvP to +14 only. If a +12 dies in PvP, do they not get rewarded?

Banana Seeds reset each event specifically so people can't exploit the rewards, but this also has the effect of preventing people from being able to save up their Banana Seeds for rewards they didn't earn. The events happen often, so the opportunity is there for you to improve your character and try again. Further, not really sure what benefit a +14 gets from buying a +14 shard aside from selling it to someone that needs it, which is good for everyone involved.
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: lnitiate on May 11, 2019, 12:32:32 pm
I've participated in the PvP event enough times to give a comment worth looking into.

I dont really care for PvP. I dont get all emo like others when i get a kill or get killed. I'm sure there are others like me but just dont understand the current PvP system, rules, and rewards.

If you look at PvP results from event there are some common things you will find.
1. I kill sometimes but not much.
2. I die often.
3. I usually, if not always,  earn the Meat Shield title (has reward perks)

Base on current rules, I can easily earn 60+ Banana Seeds and the occassional 100+ if i'm paying attention and actively involved.

Just some facts:
1. I'm not giving free kills becus my toon is actively trying to survive and attacking to get kills.
2. Nor am I collaborating with any of the other players.

Some just take advantage of what I do to gain more kills. Because what I do is somewhat a repetitive pattern. Really nothing different from what others do. I go out to pvp zone. I get killed, or if lucky, kill a player.

Here are just some thoughts on current PvP system.

How do you stop players who participate in the event that dont really care whether they kill a player or get killed by another player? As long as they get Banana Seeds, does it really matter?

There is a limiter on how many Banana Seeds a player earns if they dont get a kill. But, what stops other players from letting those players who reach the limit get a kill? It's kinda a win/win situation. If the player who reach the limit no longer earns seeds they will stop coming out. But the other players wants them to come out so they can continue to earn seeds.

My last comment is that the event is not server wide friendly. It is more of endgame players event to easily acquire hard to get sigils and thousands of jadens. Makes me wonder how many jadens/sigils non max players have earn since this event came out as compared to max players.

I recommend to change rewards that do not give players advantage.
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: LuXueqi on May 15, 2019, 08:30:06 am
That is what I have been trying to say on the forums for a long time already, but nobody seems to give a single flying fuck about it. This is exactly what is more or less wrong with the game: the rich (hence 'end game' geared) get richer, and the poor (pleb gears/items) get poorer. This influx of 'free' stuff to the rich will also have a knock on effect on the economy of the game; it wont matter for the rich people since they have enough to pay for themselves, but all the poor plebs will get fucked because now they dont have those resources to spend.

I suggest the PVP events should be transferred to a 'battle ground' like arena where you have to sign up and there are sign up conditions (i.e. chroma level) or possible have the pvp hosted in an alternate server (similar to how elysium works) and their inventory/items dont get transferred over, only their character stats; then they buy the gear there and do pvp with those gears. This would allow a pleb to get +14 gears and actually have a chance to participate in said pvp event as opposed to trying to pvp in +11 or so gears and getting reported for feeding/exploiting the system and potentially banned. The latter option is probably too much work but I dont see any other way to make a pvp event as fair as possible.
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: sloth1o1 on May 15, 2019, 03:50:53 pm
Well said, economy is pretty fucked..Fate's Bloods go for 1mil each, so that is 25mil for your set? Lol.
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: Perryl on May 16, 2019, 12:52:52 pm
That is what I have been trying to say on the forums for a long time already, but nobody seems to give a single flying fuck about it. This is exactly what is more or less wrong with the game: the rich (hence 'end game' geared) get richer, and the poor (pleb gears/items) get poorer. This influx of 'free' stuff to the rich will also have a knock on effect on the economy of the game; it wont matter for the rich people since they have enough to pay for themselves, but all the poor plebs will get fucked because now they dont have those resources to spend.

I suggest the PVP events should be transferred to a 'battle ground' like arena where you have to sign up and there are sign up conditions (i.e. chroma level) or possible have the pvp hosted in an alternate server (similar to how elysium works) and their inventory/items dont get transferred over, only their character stats; then they buy the gear there and do pvp with those gears. This would allow a pleb to get +14 gears and actually have a chance to participate in said pvp event as opposed to trying to pvp in +11 or so gears and getting reported for feeding/exploiting the system and potentially banned. The latter option is probably too much work but I dont see any other way to make a pvp event as fair as possible.

It's not that "nobody gives a fuck". It's that I can spend all day drafting up posts for this and deleting them because they are harsh in some way or another. Something I've already been doing for over 40 minutes. This is time I cannot get back, time that could have been spent on development, but I had to respond or you'd continue going around saying "nobody gives a fuck" because we don't agree with you.

I'm just going to sum it up to this. You're asking me to fix 2 very close to unsolvable issues. 1. Capitalism. 2. Players who existed in previous updates have advantages over players who join in new updates.

The former is basically unsolvable in games, life, etc. The rich will always have an advantage over the poor. Even in Fortnite.

The latter, we have ideas for this, but they have literally nothing to do with the event system. So, basically everything in your 1st paragraph is irrelevant to this function. I will say one thing, the only way the poor can stay poor or get poorer is by being too lazy to complete their dailies and, well, do all the stuff those rich players did to get where they are. You know, the server being 6 years old kinda contributes to that.

Your 2nd paragraph, 1st suggestion, assumes that Chroma could ever be a fair limiting factor. At this point, there is too much variation to character build to give any one limiting factor and expect it to actually be fair.

Your 2nd suggestion is a pretty good idea, but don't expect it anytime soon. Like you said, it would take a fair amount of work and, well, capitalism doesn't allow me to spend more time than I do on this server. Also, stats would be the stats of a rich person vs the stats of a poor person, not sure that works out to as fair as you think it does. And what do they buy their gear with?

Oh, and, finally, nobody is being banned for feeding/exploiting just because they die too much. This is such a ridiculous assumption.

And this post consumed an hour of my time because I wrote up 5 different posts at about this length saying similar things. Even this one I want to delete.

This is why I don't spend much time on forums, because then I spend all my time on forums and have no time for development.

Which would you prefer I do?
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: Perryl on May 16, 2019, 12:54:13 pm
Well said, economy is pretty fucked..Fate's Bloods go for 1mil each, so that is 25mil for your set? Lol.

Economy is doing the same thing it always does. When Fatebloods drop in price then people will be crying that it's not a mil. I bet you wish you could sell WLS for 100 gold each. lol
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: Perryl on May 16, 2019, 01:07:58 pm
I've participated in the PvP event enough times to give a comment worth looking into.

I dont really care for PvP. I dont get all emo like others when i get a kill or get killed. I'm sure there are others like me but just dont understand the current PvP system, rules, and rewards.

If you look at PvP results from event there are some common things you will find.
1. I kill sometimes but not much.
2. I die often.
3. I usually, if not always,  earn the Meat Shield title (has reward perks)

Base on current rules, I can easily earn 60+ Banana Seeds and the occassional 100+ if i'm paying attention and actively involved.

Just some facts:
1. I'm not giving free kills becus my toon is actively trying to survive and attacking to get kills.
2. Nor am I collaborating with any of the other players.

Some just take advantage of what I do to gain more kills. Because what I do is somewhat a repetitive pattern. Really nothing different from what others do. I go out to pvp zone. I get killed, or if lucky, kill a player.

Here are just some thoughts on current PvP system.

How do you stop players who participate in the event that dont really care whether they kill a player or get killed by another player? As long as they get Banana Seeds, does it really matter?

There is a limiter on how many Banana Seeds a player earns if they dont get a kill. But, what stops other players from letting those players who reach the limit get a kill? It's kinda a win/win situation. If the player who reach the limit no longer earns seeds they will stop coming out. But the other players wants them to come out so they can continue to earn seeds.

My last comment is that the event is not server wide friendly. It is more of endgame players event to easily acquire hard to get sigils and thousands of jadens. Makes me wonder how many jadens/sigils non max players have earn since this event came out as compared to max players.

I recommend to change rewards that do not give players advantage.

I agree with most of this post, but I do think the event is noob-friendly. Sure, they'll get less rewards. They'll also have less Jaden for bid sigils to get the auction item they want too. It takes time to get to the point that you're getting the top rewards. There's no reason that a person who just joined the server should expect to be able to compete with someone who has been playing for years. That should take some time. Your years of effort should have some value.

The rewards weren't meant to be sigil shards every event, and when they are, they likely won't always be tradeable ones either. The prices on the tradeable ones are a bit lower than they will be when the system is filled out.

I do agree, the rewards need to be updated. We also plan to add more event types and different map options.

It's also important to note, just because you get to the point that deaths stop counting seeds doesn't mean you should give up, as soon as you get a kill the score will adjust itself appropriately.
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: LuXueqi on May 16, 2019, 06:26:36 pm
Your 2nd paragraph, 1st suggestion, assumes that Chroma could ever be a fair limiting factor. At this point, there is too much variation to character build to give any one limiting factor and expect it to actually be fair.

Your 2nd suggestion is a pretty good idea, but don't expect it anytime soon. Like you said, it would take a fair amount of work and, well, capitalism doesn't allow me to spend more time than I do on this server. Also, stats would be the stats of a rich person vs the stats of a poor person, not sure that works out to as fair as you think it does. And what do they buy their gear with?

Oh, and, finally, nobody is being banned for feeding/exploiting just because they die too much. This is such a ridiculous assumption.

And this post consumed an hour of my time because I wrote up 5 different posts at about this length saying similar things. Even this one I want to delete.

This is why I don't spend much time on forums, because then I spend all my time on forums and have no time for development.

Which would you prefer I do?

Well you seriously need to have a dedicated person to manage and reply to posts on the forum.

Anyway, back on topic; I originally wrote a long and lengthy block of text suggesting a universal power stat that would be calculated on each character depending on their other individual stats/gears/items, but it was too long so i will shorten it:
calculate a universal power score on each character; i.e. 1 attack = 1 pts, +11 gear = 100, +12 = 250, etc, etc... and add pvp bands for these (<1000 group, 1000-1999 group, >2000 group, etc) or allow participation from other bands but punish/reward them for being stronger/weaker than current band. But it would probably take equally as long to formulate a conversion rate that is balanced and fair for all factions, etc than compared to just outright building a new pvp server where people can join and buy gears/stats for them to pvp in that event - and potentially kill the server due to lack of donations (trust me, servers that did this kind of thing died veeery quickly, despite being ranked number 1 and had the most players).

Also, you implied that feeding is not bannable, so what is there stopping me from going out there, setting an astrolabe port just infront of the pvp zone where everyone is at, and throwing in a lvl1 pleb there and get the death score which is enough to buy a lot of stuff; also, unistar apparently counts towards kills AND deaths as well so you could bring a lvl 1 asc arden and unistar spam to get free score.

Also, on a side note and just for teh lolz, the game does have a built in web browser that you can open in the client, so... have you ever thought of forcing people to watch an ad or some other random shit as a 'sign up' fee for something? maybe a pvp event? lmao imagine the free un-adblock-able ad revenue from all the people going to pvp. This would keep the participation 'free' and if it was a battle ground based instance pvp, then it wouldnt hurt anyone since they have to wait for the instance to open first anyway so might as well watch something; you could just disable the esc key input while the window was open and close it in x seconds or have some other trigger, and just make sure the border of the window is >client resolution so they cant drag the window out of the way
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: Perryl on May 16, 2019, 11:51:25 pm
Your 2nd paragraph, 1st suggestion, assumes that Chroma could ever be a fair limiting factor. At this point, there is too much variation to character build to give any one limiting factor and expect it to actually be fair.

Your 2nd suggestion is a pretty good idea, but don't expect it anytime soon. Like you said, it would take a fair amount of work and, well, capitalism doesn't allow me to spend more time than I do on this server. Also, stats would be the stats of a rich person vs the stats of a poor person, not sure that works out to as fair as you think it does. And what do they buy their gear with?

Oh, and, finally, nobody is being banned for feeding/exploiting just because they die too much. This is such a ridiculous assumption.

And this post consumed an hour of my time because I wrote up 5 different posts at about this length saying similar things. Even this one I want to delete.

This is why I don't spend much time on forums, because then I spend all my time on forums and have no time for development.

Which would you prefer I do?

Well you seriously need to have a dedicated person to manage and reply to posts on the forum.

Anyway, back on topic; I originally wrote a long and lengthy block of text suggesting a universal power stat that would be calculated on each character depending on their other individual stats/gears/items, but it was too long so i will shorten it:
calculate a universal power score on each character; i.e. 1 attack = 1 pts, +11 gear = 100, +12 = 250, etc, etc... and add pvp bands for these (<1000 group, 1000-1999 group, >2000 group, etc) or allow participation from other bands but punish/reward them for being stronger/weaker than current band. But it would probably take equally as long to formulate a conversion rate that is balanced and fair for all factions, etc than compared to just outright building a new pvp server where people can join and buy gears/stats for them to pvp in that event - and potentially kill the server due to lack of donations (trust me, servers that did this kind of thing died veeery quickly, despite being ranked number 1 and had the most players).

Also, you implied that feeding is not bannable, so what is there stopping me from going out there, setting an astrolabe port just infront of the pvp zone where everyone is at, and throwing in a lvl1 pleb there and get the death score which is enough to buy a lot of stuff; also, unistar apparently counts towards kills AND deaths as well so you could bring a lvl 1 asc arden and unistar spam to get free score.

Also, on a side note and just for teh lolz, the game does have a built in web browser that you can open in the client, so... have you ever thought of forcing people to watch an ad or some other random shit as a 'sign up' fee for something? maybe a pvp event? lmao imagine the free un-adblock-able ad revenue from all the people going to pvp. This would keep the participation 'free' and if it was a battle ground based instance pvp, then it wouldnt hurt anyone since they have to wait for the instance to open first anyway so might as well watch something; you could just disable the esc key input while the window was open and close it in x seconds or have some other trigger, and just make sure the border of the window is >client resolution so they cant drag the window out of the way

We don't need to hire someone and pay them to respond to this nonsense. I don't understand where some of these ideas come from. Stop making suggestions that cost money unless you're going to pay for them.

Don't try and read between the lines. I'm not trying to trick you here.

Feeding is bannable. I simply said nobody is being banned for feeding/exploiting just because they "die too much". The rankings are public, anybody can report someone exploiting the event. It's like anything in the game, there will be people that exploit it, and when it happens they will be banned. You implied someone had to worry about being banned because they couldn't get a kill. That's massively oversimplifying it. It's an issue that cannot be solved without negatively affecting basically every aspect of the server.

Suicide kills counting was fixed... What's stopping you? What's stopping you from paying someone to respond to the stupidity you spew all over the forums? Go do it, see what happens. You suggested legit players had to worry about being banned for feeding, now you're suggesting that exploiters don't have to worry about being banned. Use your brain.

Yeah, cause people want to watch ads before PvP. While I'm at it, let's make it pop up in between each death too. People would love it.



Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: LuXueqi on May 17, 2019, 07:44:24 am
Noice. If it was such a pain and waste of time then why even bother replying?
And im just giving suggestions since you apparently have no ideas yourself and cant make a working/balanced event system yourself; especially when this sort of pvp system already existed before you added it - sounds similar to good ol' apple 'innovation' doesnt it.
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: lnitiate on May 17, 2019, 12:31:19 pm
NOTE: this post is written without reading previous post. So I may be writing something already mentioned.

Just completed pvp event and here are the results.

Observation: After 15 seeds with no kills I stopped getting seeds. Players who continued to kill me still gain seeds. This results in possible exploits.
Recommendation: No seeds for any player who kills a player who not have a seed from a kill.
-----------------------------------------
Observation: Rewards are transferable.
Recommendation: non-transferable items from event. Also, remove the jaden rewards.

-----------------------------------------
Observation: Not many players participate. I think this is due to fact that they dont like to come to event to always die and not get a kill.

Recommendation 1: Participants stats are set to a default 160asc with max faction skills ONLY. The following are by default disabled >>No gears, no affinity, no chroma, no mystic tome, no cards, etc...Is programming this possible? unlikely. 

Recommendation 2: Participants gain access to max all (gear, faction skills, affinity, chroma, mystic tome, star soul stats, cards, etc..) that players can customize prior to start of event). Is programming this possible? unlikely. 
Title: Re: PvP Event System
Post by: lnitiate on May 26, 2019, 04:55:26 pm
Clarify meaning of:

do not play more than one character at a time

with that rule, what is allowed and what is not allowed? think possible what if scenerios.